Becoming the Heroes of Our Own Lives

Speaker 1: 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Curious Ulsterman podcast, the podcast designed to equip you with the tools and wisdom you need to thrive as an adult. I am your host, johnny, aka the Curious Ulsterman, and in today's episode I am joined by my good friend and fellow podcaster, colt Gordon. Colt is a United States Marine Corps veteran. Now he is a full-time therapist and counselor helping clients deal with PTSD, eating disorders, anxiety, and I felt he was the perfect person to come on today and discuss essentially this mental health episode. But by the way, further ado folks, here is today's episode with Colt Gordon Colt. Welcome back, brother. Thanks for joining us on the podcast again. What's up, man? Nice seeing you. I can see that the California weather out there is blazing through the window. I assume it's far, far better than quite drizzling UK weather.

Speaker 2: 0:59

Well, it's looking a little foggy London town. I think. It's just pretty bright right now, but it'll clear up. Sometimes it's kind of foggy in the morning and then it just turns into nothing but sunshine and palm trees.

Speaker 1: 1:11

Oh nice, good surfing conditions then. Oh yeah, long Beach, california, that's where I'm at. Oh sweet, I'll have to get out there someday, experience it for myself. Yeah, I'd love to have you. Thanks, man. So today we have you back to discuss all things mental health and, for those of you who aren't aware, colt came on in season one and discussed getting over the various fears. You have, feeling the fear, and doing it anyway in season one, so do check that out. That was a very popular episode, and today we're going to be talking about becoming sovereign of your life through conquering your again, fears, perceived weaknesses, just anything within the mental health field, and thankfully we have an expert here today. So what I want to talk about in specifics was actually a recent episode in your own podcast where you had a chat with Nick Westcott. Am I saying his name correctly?

Speaker 2: 2:09

Yep, that's correct, nick Westcott.

Speaker 1: 2:11

Nick Westcott Absolutely phenomenal story. He had a phenomenal episode on your podcast which I will put a link in the show notes for people to check out themselves. But you said a lot of really interesting things in that particular episode that I really want to do a deep dive into today and I have some quotes so, if you don't mind, we'll get stuck straight in. At one point in the episode you said if you are afraid of fire and can systematically overcome that fear, what have you become the wielder of fire? And what I took from that was if you are afraid of blank insert that fear, what if you consistently overcome that fear? And then what if you become the wielder of that fear, so to speak? And for me what I liked about that was that you said systematically, like it wasn't through caution to the wind. Especially when things are mental health related, you do need to take an expert, scientifically peer reviewed approach to tackling this, much like you would any other field of medicine. But can you elaborate on what you meant by that quote, especially systematically approaching your fears?

Speaker 2: 3:22

Yeah Well, what do you think about this Like? What is the utility in overcoming a fear? What's your knee jerk? Thoughts on that.

Speaker 1: 3:29

That's a phenomenal question. It caught me off guard, it's okay, I mean. The utility I would say would be that life is for living and if a fear is holding you back, you're not living your life to the full, to its fullest potential. I love it.

Speaker 2: 3:43

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, because you don't have to face all your fears if you don't want to. No, I tell my clients I work with all the time. Just because I talk about feel a fear and do it anyway doesn't mean that you have to find everyone your fears, uncover every rock, overcome all those fears. That's not what I'm saying. However, if you have a fear that is getting in the way of you living the best life you can live, or it's getting the way of what you value, it's getting the way of what you want your life to be like, then there's a lot of utility to overcoming those fears. Now that doesn't mean, don't come over, because I've been learning how to ocean distance swim all last summer and I've been doing it again. Now it's getting a little warmer and that has served. That's been bleeding into all other areas of my life, kind of like martial arts, almost kind of bleeds into other areas of your life. So it's super important to find a way in a baby step manner, as I talk about, on how you can overcome the things that are constantly making your life unmanageable or making your life less meaningful. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1: 4:56

It does 100% and you mentioned and I've listened to your podcast regularly as well you always do mention taking baby steps, taking this approach towards your fear, and I've heard you talk about before helping people with exposure therapy. Would that? Be, the main systematic way that you would conquer a fear, or is that one of many ways?

Speaker 2: 5:20

Good question. I think it's the most empirically sound way to overcome something. I think you can certainly overcome something by jumping in and just like doing it. The problem with that is that what if it doesn't work out? Then your brain realizes it says oh you see, you see this facing fear and facing the things that you don't like, it's not worth it. So let's just go back to our comfort zone. Let's just go back to what we've always known, our familiar hell. It's not exactly ideal over here, but at least we know it. And our brains are not very impressive, to be quite honest. Our brains are meant to keep us in a homeostasis. Now, the damn thing about that is that if, what if? Our homeostasis is dysfunctional. We grew up in dysfunctional families. We grew up in an environment that doesn't promote self-growth, it doesn't promote having a journey of any sort. So if that's the case, then it's really important that we systematically find a new way of being. It's just that our brains are going to constantly pull us back like a rubber band, right.

Speaker 1: 6:28

That's really interesting. So our brains, biologically, have developed to protect us and obviously, from an evolutionary point of view, that made sense when we were in caveman days. But we're not in caveman days, and how, even from your own experience perhaps? How do you even start? How do you go from? Okay, my homeostasis is not letting me live my life to the full or it's giving my life less meaning, and I want to change that. That penny drop moment has happened for someone. I want to change or I need to change.

Speaker 2: 6:59

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 7:00

How do you get started with these baby steps and exposing yourself in a systematic way to the fear?

Speaker 2: 7:07

Great question. So, first of all, we talked about systematically taking baby steps in the direction of what you value in order to create a new way of being and create a new life. Remember, we need a systemic kind of view for going to systemic, like looking at it as a system right, like why am I the way I am? In the first place? Because if you can get a bird's eye view on why you are the way you are man, that is huge. It can help you. Like look at it more objectively Because, for instance, I grew up in an alcoholic home. So I'm going to use some perhaps dramatic language here and some people may kind of scoff at it, but oh well, I experienced some emotional incest. What I mean by that is that my mom came to me and sought emotional kind of support that she should have been getting from her partner. So if your kid's growing up like that, you become a caretaker, you become someone that is trying to constantly make sure everyone else is okay and then therefore abandon you, which is never a recipe for fulfillment.

Speaker 1: 8:10

No 100%.

Speaker 2: 8:12

Yeah, and it really affected my dating life and just how I managed myself and how I dated it, et cetera, et cetera. And then I'm constantly making sure my dad's not too pissed off and then I even get a higher bird's eye view on why has my dad become the way he became, and look at his parents. And so I'm creating kind of a map almost like a family tree, if you will, called a genogram in psychology where you kind of like, just kind of have like a map of like okay, this is how I became to be from these generations, that just generations. And here I am Now. Why is that important? Because if I know who I am systemically, then I can start differentiating out from that. I can start becoming a well-defined self from that. If I don't see the system right, If I don't, like, we talk let's become an individual, become an individual. Jordan Peterson talks about that. Well, that infers that you're not and therefore you're just kind of stuck cog in the system, right, and when you rise up from that, become the hero of your own story. You got to see the system for it is so you can overcome and self differentiate from that effectively, not flipping over tables, but effectively become a more well-defined person, and I've a myriad of examples. But go ahead. How's that sound?

Speaker 1: 9:32

No, that's really good. I would maybe like to hear some of those examples just to put flesh to bones to that argument. But something I would like to add is I like what you're saying about the and I hope I'm saying this correctly the genome, the family genome. Genogram. Yeah, and I like that because I've heard repeatedly in some mental health circles about breaking the cycle. Yeah, like you don't have to continue that destructive behavior and pass that on to your kids or your sphere of influence, and I also like that. When you recognize that system, you become an individual and then you do. A lot of people are mistaken, thinking that caring for yourself is selfish, which we need to get out of that. The perfect example for that is on an airplane they tell you to put on your own mask before helping others, and that's not out of selfishness, that is out of common sense, necessity. How can you help others if you yourself are incapacitated? But yeah, sorry that was just my own little take on that, but what examples were you going to talk about?

Speaker 2: 10:36

Well, before I get into the examples, I make sure I get to them is what if selfishness is synonymous with maturity? And that's how I look at it. Because I think a lot of people yeah, I think a lot of people use selfishness to control, manipulate others. Oh, you're being selfish. You're selfish person and I'm like okay. So I think I work with clients that you know the clients finally becoming the person they want to become and they're being told they're being selfish and really what's happening is they're disrupting the homeostasis of the system. They're used to that person being this caretaker, this scapegoat, whatever the family role they grew up in. They're used to them being that and now that they're maturing through that, they're being called selfish. So I try to take the power out of that word and like oh yeah, you're being selfish because you need to become a self. You need to become more selfish, god forbid, so that you can mature and that people can adjust and so that you can get what you want and what you need. Otherwise, you're just going to, you're just going to do what you've always done and get what you've always gotten, and that doesn't work. I mean, it does work. If you don't, if you, if you're okay with that, you don't have to differentiate. You don't have to become a more, more well-defined self. So that's what I mean by that.

Speaker 1: 11:55

So, in a weird way, breaking out of that traditional family role that you have been assigned either you know, not through choice or you've assigned it to yourself because that's what's worked for your family dynamic. In a weird way, when you become selfish and start to take care of yourself and become the person you want to be. In a way it reminds me of unplugging from the matrix. It's like something you have this realization that you know what you thought was your reality is in fact, you know not what it's. You know it's not what it's supposed to be. It's not, it's not. It's not the correct reality, so to speak. Yeah, and I think, like Now that you think of it, now that I think about it, there's plenty of families you know who probably live in a bubble, and that bubble is normal until they stay up outside of it. Now, I've always been lucky that I got out of my own country and actually like went into, like, the maritime industry. So I have met people of every creed and color and religion and I've been so lucky to do that because I got outside of my bubble. There was a world outside of my village and so many different views and perspectives, and there's many ways that families function that don't function like mine, and you know it's not saying anything bad about my own family, but it was just interesting that you know what my normal was was, in some cases, wildly different or wildly similar to others, you know. But yeah, so that was my little spoiler. What examples were you going to?

Speaker 2: 13:30

Yeah, let me bring some examples. But I'm going to say one more thing here is the cult of culture CULT, not my name, cult. The cult of culture, like that's another thing. If thinking systems right, like how much of what I do and what I'm saying is true for me, or is this a product of me, and how this culture has kind of, and for better or worse, has helped me assimilate and just be a role in the system, right, and when you step outside of that, well, interestingly, that's been some of the most influential people in the world. Yeah, so it's kind of recognizing that like there's nothing wrong with working with the system, but sometimes we have to learn to like become a self within the system and people will spit in your face, they will want to crucify you yeah, and that is part of the journey of you have to be willing to kind of be criticized if you want to get in the arena and so, anyway, examples so for just this idea of differentiating and coming out, of becoming a more well-defined self, I think for me, I remember when I was 21, I finally stood up to my stepmother and my father. They always controlled what I did, like when I came. Even I was in the Marine Corps man, I was coming back from war and I come back and they tell me hey, man, okay, this is what we're going to do this weekend. This is where I was like you know what I actually want to go see so and so on the town next over. Like what? No, you can't do that. And I just I just look at them calmly, not in a reactionary manner. They flip over any tables and I said I understand you're upset. I'm 21 years old, I'm going to make my decision. And that right, there was a very good example in my mind of this idea of being selfish in a way that is not selfish but actually very mature and people just have. Well, most people will adjust if they're, if they're, if they're mentally okay, they're not narcissistic, they'll adjust. And so there's lots of techniques, if you will, lots of ways on learning how to stay, become a responder and not a reactor. Nonetheless, it's it's. It's about staying grounded. Calmness is everything. Looking at it objectively, watching how the fact that whenever, like, my heart was beating out of my chest from that small example, my heart was beating out of my chest.

Speaker 1: 16:04

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 16:04

And I was like I'm not going to be on it, you know, and but recognizing, hey, that's systems anxiety, it's anxiety coming from the system. I'm feeling like I'm getting outside of my role, I'm getting outside of what I'm supposed to be and who I'm supposed to be, et cetera, et cetera. Watching all that anxiety and watching myself and what, oh, I see this is coming from the system. And using my prefrontal cortex, the part of me that makes me human, my logical system, yeah, and I'm like, hey, there's nothing wrong with this. I'm 21 years old man, it helps, right, because otherwise we'll just go back, we'll just do whatever I feel anxious for stepping outside of the normal. So, therefore, I'll just do what they say. No, no, no, that's just systems anxiety. Watch that, diffuse from that and and get aligned with what's logically sound. Okay, there's nothing wrong with this, there's nothing unhealthy. They just can have to adjust.

Speaker 1: 16:54

And they did. Yeah, that's really cool, man. And coming back to the original question of overcoming your fear through exposure, something two things that you have said consistently in your podcast that I really resonate with is feeling forward, like there's no easy way to have an uncomfortable conversation, or the first time you step out of the system that you grew up in. It's going to be messy and it's going to. You know it's not going to go to plan and it's going to be. You know, anxiety written potentially, but you know another thing you say, which I find quite strange at first, but it's very helpful is thanks for that, brian, or is that the correct saying Thanks for sharing Brian? Thanks for sharing Brian. Yeah, could you just elaborate on that, because I think that's a perfect example of the first time you know people do stand up to potentially abusive parents, partners, anything like that, and their heart is beating out of their chest. Yeah, describe that concept of thanks for sharing Brian.

Speaker 2: 17:53

Absolutely so. One of the things I've noticed well, how about I put it this way? Ultimately, with when I work with people, I'm getting to a point of doing what works right. Let's do what works, because all this over here there's payoffs. There's payoffs to every behavior that we do. There's payoffs to using cocaine. There's payoffs to prostitution. There's payoffs to just giving it to the family doing whatever they want. There's payoffs to all that. But what does it cost in you? Does it ultimately work? And most of the time that answers no. And so for me, this idea of diffusion that's the fancy word for it like diffusing a bomb. I call thanks for sharing, brian. And it's not to invalidate the fact that you're scared or that these feelings don't. No, you feel them, you feel the conditioning, you feel the fact like all right. So yesterday here's an example is I had a great day and then I've always struggled with depression and sometimes it just hits me like left field man just comes out of nowhere and I was feeling kind of depressed. I was like, oh man, like why? I wonder if I just got too much sun or what is going on here. I just sat in a parking lot for 30 minutes and then at some point I was like okay, hold on. What do I value? Okay, I value competence, I value courage, I value integrity. And so I knew that I was going to run and go on a run, but I just wasn't feeling like it and so at one point I said thanks for sharing, brian. I started my car back up, I watched the resistance, I went home, put my running clothes on and I went on an eight mile run Probably one of the longest runs I've ever recorded Like I usually just do three to six miles, if anything, you know. And I went on an eight mile run, man, and that's the power of diffusion being able to watch your conditioning, being able to watch the resistance and understanding where it's coming from. Like, I may always struggle with depression, but do I have to let it control me? The answer is no, and it doesn't control me anymore. It just is and I can watch it.

Speaker 1: 20:16

Yeah, that's really powerful what you just said. You know you struggled with depression, but it doesn't have to control you. You're not a slave to it, and I really, really like that. That's going to definitely be a nice quote.

Speaker 2: 20:30

And let's be clear, like it's probably not clinical depression at this point in my life. It's just like I get kind of despondent sometimes or I kind of get down to dumps real easy maybe a little more easily than others, but still you don't have to let it control you.

Speaker 1: 20:44

Yeah, I really like the fact that you know as a bloke especially, you're the expert in this, but I think men, more than women, have a real trouble talking about mental health and being vulnerable. Yeah definitely, and you know, I like the fact that you know someone who's a war veteran, an expert in their field, in psychology and therapy, and saying showing that this is perfectly normal to chat about. Yeah. It's something that should be hidden away and buried because that's going to do no one any good. But this is really good because it nicely segues into the next quote and question about mental illness and suffering and the quote actually came from later in the episode and it's reasonably long, but I feel like it gives the full context to this. So life is suffering, but what if we make our lives so meaningful that it makes the suffering irrelevant? Where your pain is is where your message could be. The more I've exercised my demons, the more I've become the wielder of fire. Bruce Wayne was afraid of bats. Who did he become? The Batman, and that becomes our journey now. So that ties in nicely with what was the first quote we mentioned about becoming the wielder of fire. But you know, wielding your fear rather than it wielding you, and we talk about Batman's journey very briefly there. But there's another interesting concept that I've come across recently of the hero's journey, and you actually mentioned it, I think, very early on about becoming the hero of your own story. So in relation to that quote and all things, mental health, how do we become the hero of our own story?

Speaker 2: 22:35

Yeah, very good question. I mean, how did Luke Skywalker do it right? How did Simba do it? How does Bruce Wayne do it? Well, the way I look at it and I got this from Joe Rogan and I love it and I use it with clients all the time is it's almost like a video game and you ever play like the Sims family or something like that.

Speaker 1: 23:05

I did. I did a very long time ago. Yeah, yeah, I think I have a couple of times too.

Speaker 2: 23:09

I just never really got into it too well. So I talked about this idea of diffusion. Thanks for sharing Brain, right, and almost like you mentioned the Matrix. That was interesting too. But you know how, on video games, what do you call it? Third person when you see the character. But the character is you third person, right? Okay, I'm not a video game player really, so sue me if you are Sorry. I stopped playing video games when I was 16. Anyway, and it's like this, what I call it is like the fly on the wall technique, almost the fly on the wall. What if you can start watching yourself almost like from that third person view and almost anyone has an imagination, they can kind of do that. You probably don't see the back of your head, typically, do you? You can kind of imagine what it would look like. I can do it right now. If I imagine myself, right, if I call it the fly on the wall technique. If I call it the fly on the wall technique, I can kind of see myself talking to you right now and it sounds kind of like an outer body experience or something. But it's just easy to imagine. And so I talk a lot about SOPs, standard operating procedures, and if you can start making your life. Obviously you want spontaneity, don't get me wrong Making your life like your character in a video game and you kept going left, your whole life kept going left and you kept getting eaten by the dragon, eaten by the dragon and it's just like, yeah, but you know, you kept falling off the cliff in the game or whatever it is right. You kept losing. Well, and you feel like I can't, I'm like my own worst enemy. How many times have you heard that? Right, I'm my own worst enemy. Right, yeah, we get in our own way. Well, if we could start learning this technique of fly on the wall, kind of just watching ourselves almost like a meditation, and doing this. Thanks for sharing brain, getting outside of our conditioning, right, it's not very woo-woo, if anything, it's very strategic and very technical and you can start almost creating a new muscle in your brain where you constantly are realigning, realigning what's important to me, what do I value, what are my goals? Oh, yeah, that's right. So I'm going to, I'm grabbing myself by my collar, I'm going to take myself over here. Yeah, and I'm going to do this behavior because that is what works for what I want in my life, right, yeah, even though, like, this is where I want, this is where my everything is pulling me back here. The whole system is pulling me back here. So it's this process, it's this practice of watching yourself and then putting those things in place, almost treating your life like a business, right? And then, within that structure, of course, be spontaneous, of course. We're creating a system that can help you have the most optimal life, a life that's actually fun you actually do stop and smell the roses but a life that's actually getting you where you want to go as well, which takes work. It's not easy. So that's where I would definitely start is kind of getting people in this new way of thinking right, because I think most people, for most of their lives, whatever the mind says, they look through those lenses Like that's just whatever the mind says is true and that's any religion, any like real introspective journey recognizes oh my gosh, that's not who I am, that's not me, that's what everyone called. That's the brain, that's my mind, that's my conditioning, and I can hold that lightly. Some of that stuff is good, not all of it is. Use it when it's necessary, but start using your brain as a tool instead of it tooling you. So that's one suggestion. It's a big question, though how do you get on the hero's journey? But that's that's typical where I start with people, and it's something I continually practice, you know. So I mean, just yesterday was that example I went on a run. I didn't want to. What does wanting have to do with it?

Speaker 1: 27:18

I like what you say there, that even for someone like you who is an expert in this field, it's not a one-trick pony. You don't just. You just don't become the self. You don't just. You know self-analyze, do the third person perspective. You don't just do that once and that's you, hunky dory. You need to. This needs to be intentional and you need to do it consistently as well. A bit like exercise. It's not like you want you go to the gym once and suddenly you're a peak athlete. You know it's. I think a lot of people are under, or at least misrepresent what they think taking care of your mental health is like. I think that I don't know what it's like in the States, but at least in Europe people will work their asses off all year To get on a two week holiday and that's their, that's their quote, unquote rest time two weeks out of an entire year, whereas it would be nice to create a culture where you rest intentionally every day, not not obviously be lazy, but set aside a dedicated time in your 24 hour day for you to rest and I touched on this in a previous episode the seven types of rests, so check that out. But yeah, mental rest was definitely one of them, and I mean like if you even set aside 30 minutes out of a 24 hour day to do the things you're suggesting, to do your meditation, to do Wim Hof method, to do whatever is going to consistently improve the health of your mind, I think you can't go far wrong with that, would you agree?

Speaker 2: 28:57

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this is something that's been a struggle for me is learning how to leisure, learning how to really enjoy my life, and it's. I mean I had such a good time on that run yesterday, like I really didn't want to do it and I wasn't doing it for fun, but I ended up having a lot of fun with it, cause I actually listened to some podcasts while I was doing it and it was, it was a good time, man. But I mean, I've been going these ocean distance swimming I went deep, deep diving yesterday as well and it's like what, if, what if? Discipline can also be used to create an optimal life, like in half balance, because at first I'd use discipline to whip myself over the back with it. Right, I use a Google calendar to like to like beat myself up, but these are all the things you need to do. Damn it, you piece of shit. You know, and if I didn't do it, then you're not worthy. And now I use it as a tool to create the life that I actually want. You know, you get the, you get the things done that you said you would do, and then the rest of the day you can just do whatever you want, you can go. You can go get a bike and go on a bike ride, because you did the things you said you would do and it's working, it's. You're becoming the hero of your own story and it's like man. If we're not, if we're not eating the nectar and finding nectar in our life, then why are we living? If we're not actually finding that nectar and the things that make us come alive, like ocean distance swimming for me, right, or bike rides on the beach, or going out with someone that scares me, right, going out, that beautiful woman that I used to always avoid, and now I'm like like Sam on the hobbit, you're mine. Like, like, if we're not doing those things, then or, excuse me, the Lord of the Rings, yeah. And if we're not doing those things, then like, what are we doing?

Speaker 1: 30:43

Yeah, yeah. I was like I'm just picturing an entire fond, I'm going no wrong movie.

Speaker 2: 30:50

Yeah, I'm a decent nerd, but I'm most people are surprised that I'm a nerd.

Speaker 1: 30:55

That was just a blunder on my part, don't worry, I make plenty of mistakes myself in that regard. Yeah, so, big Star Wars fans is, so you all know. Oh, very good. Yeah, lord of the Rings fan food free, must admit, and there's probably so many analogies you could use in Lord of the Rings as well.

Speaker 2: 31:09

for mental health, I mean, we probably could use it today if we want to venture there. So we'll see if we can fit it 100%.

Speaker 1: 31:15

And. But we said something there about discipline. I think you know what triggered that in my mind as well is that quotation that we hear quite frequently. You know at least we're in our circles discipline equals freedom. I feel like you've hit the nail on the head there with that. You know, if you have the discipline to, you know, do the things you don't want to do, you do get certain freedoms from that. Yeah. But I might going off on a slight tangent here, but I noticed you said something along the lines of self critiquing yourself because the tools you were using you ended up like feeling bad for not used to the Google calendar, like do all this stuff and if you don't achieve it, you know, insert your, insert self negative talk. Yeah. So it's a very quick way for someone to stop doing that, like you know. I know you could end up doing an entire podcast on just that, but is there a quick or very useful tip for someone to and not instantly, because it will take time but stop, to stop self talk, or at least less than it?

Speaker 2: 32:25

Oh man, stop negative self talk. I don't, I don't know, man, that's a, that's a tough one. I typically tell people don't count on it. And this is the reason why, because I mean it just ultimately like my. The way I work with clients is I let's build resilience, let's build strength around becoming the watcher Again, the third eye, the third eye right, the fly on the wall, becoming the person that says thanks for sharing brain, because the brain just going to do what it's going to do, man. I work with clients and I teach them meditation, I teach them how to overcome traumas. And, dude, if you have a trauma, a traumatic experience, you cannot control those thoughts. They will infiltrate your mind and the trick isn't trying to get rid of them, it's to try to make sense of them and to actually face them. And so what happens with a lot of trauma, especially a post traumatic stress disorder with the veterans that I've worked with, is that it's like it gets stuck in the migtela, the emotional center of the brain, and it's like it's it gets all clogged up. And if we can purposely trigger a client I'm not joking trigger them and get them to think about that again, but we do it in baby steps and we have that come into the both hemispheres of the brain, they can start to make sense of it. So, to answer your question, it's like, instead of trying to defeat negative self talk, what if we just kind of like the whiny? Here's an example Like I hear birds chirping outside right now yeah, I can't control that. Oh, they're birds, they're birds. I see clouds in the sky right now and I see them moving. Right, I could move myself over to my balcony over here. I can just watch the passing traffic, and that's how I do my thoughts now it's like oh, there's another one. Oh, there's a really sexual run right there. Oh, there's a negative one right there. Right, they are, and I hate saying it, they're just thoughts, but they really are just thoughts, and that is not you.

Speaker 1: 34:37

I really that's really powerful. I've never really heard that perspective of stop trying to defeat it and you can't stop the traumatic thoughts, like there's no points trying to like stand in front of them, like trying to stop an 18-wheeler truck, yeah, but instead notice them. That's really interesting. I've never heard it from that perspective. So, rather than trying to defeat self-talk, negative self-talk, or trying to stop thoughts we don't like, it's a case of acceptor there and okay, that's it moving on. Thanks for sharing, brian, because I feel like there's a lot of frustration there if people don't feel like they're permanently happy or they can't stop certain thoughts coming into their mind. So that was quite powerful, so yeah.

Speaker 2: 35:27

I'm really glad it's so interesting because I think, coming from this well-intentioned place, our culture has really gotten into this idea of at least Western culture has gotten to this idea of positive affirmations and just positivity in general and the secret right, like power of attraction. And I'm not dogging on that stuff. That stuff's good, okay, but when those things become control strategies, that's when I'm like don't even try. Don't think that if you just thought enough positive thoughts that your brain's just going to automatically be right, like use positive thoughts as a tool, sure. Use the law of attraction as a tool, sure. However, if you think you're gonna totally hijack your own brain, I have not seen anything that has been convincing enough that that's sure there's exceptions, but that that's a long-term solution. What I've seen, more so across all cultures on earth and my own studies, is that you do this thing like a muscle. You go to the gym, you're stronger and stronger at becoming the watcher and then making adjustments and realigning yourself behaviorally to do what works. So still, I'm not dogging on positive thinking. Use it, sure, but don't use it in a way where you're doing a tug of war with your own mind and then wondering why you're so tired and then giving into whatever your thoughts say later. It's like it's back and forth. The third option is just watch it and readjust and do the next right thing.

Speaker 1: 37:01

Yeah, but like meditation then I suppose.

Speaker 2: 37:05

Yeah, in some ways and that's the way I look at it, like you. Just, I think meditation gets kind of weird. Sometimes in my mind I have some stigma against it. I don't know if I'll ever get rid of that stigma, because it's like, okay, let's all get our purple robes on and light some incense, like sure, that stuff's great, that's wonderful. But I'm looking at it more so of like the pragmatic sense, mindfulness, of like becoming, like like literally in control of your life, versus like trying to get rid of thoughts and like no thought. No, there's. I don't think there's such a thing.

Speaker 1: 37:41

Yeah, no, that's cool. I really value your perspective on that, you know, and I think that leads sort of nicely into the next quote, because you talk about exercising your mind like a muscle and building up the strength to that. And the third quote I have from your episode with Nick Wescott was our insecurities are our strengths. Look at Batman. The only reason that he is Batman is because it is the one thing that he is afraid of, to become that concept of the things that we truly, truly terrify us. Maybe it's something about the fact that the terror gives us the most focus, or something about trying to hide from parts of ourselves. And with that quote, the main thing that I got from that was that we really should be living authentically, like Batman had to embrace that fear and he's living his most authentic self. Now you can, nick, pick here and say, well, he's living his most authentic self, he wouldn't need to have a mask and all that kind of and funny, I know the thing. Actually, I think your episode title was Batman about the mask or something, wasn't it?

Speaker 2: 38:54

Yeah, you can't be coming to Batman without a mask.

Speaker 1: 38:56

Yeah, yeah, but I feel like that quote really speaks to me personally at least, about living authentically. What's your perspective with living as authentically as possible, but with these fears and with these thoughts that, as you say yourself, you can't stop them, but you can learn to live with them and to become mindful of them?

Speaker 2: 39:25

Yeah, so is your question. Like can you say your question again?

Speaker 1: 39:30

Yeah, so how do we, given that living with fear and some phobias are a natural part of life? Yes, like you said before, you can't stop traumas, you can't stop the negative thoughts entering your brain, but you can learn to live with them with mindfulness.

Speaker 2: 39:52

Yes, and with that.

Speaker 1: 39:53

so how do we do that living authentically? Because I feel, like a lot of people, especially men, we live with this shame of mental health, when we put up this facade that I'm a big tough guy, I don't need therapy, I don't need your help, I don't need a shoulder to cry on. So how can we get rid of that stigma to live authentically and say, yes, I am a strong man, I provide for my family, but I also have negative thoughts. I also have this trauma that I have to deal with.

Speaker 2: 40:25

Yeah, I think I'll answer this in a way that you're looking for you tell me if I don't. Okay, so I think what's interesting about Batman? He always had Alfred. What's interesting about Batman? He also had Lucius. Eventually he also had Robin. So to me, this has been a team effort. Ultimately, for me, batman can't be Batman without Alfred. He just, logistically speaking, he couldn't, he needed his help. Yeah, so to me, there's been this process of learning who I can open up to, because not everyone deserves my Batman, if that makes sense, and everyone deserves my vulnerability. But there are people that will support me overcoming the thing. For instance, I want a family one day, I want kids. This has been a really weird time. I grew up pre-internet and I also grew up when hookup culture became pretty big tender, right, I don't know right, I was in the military, so there's just a lot of kind of that's kind of like you talk about the matrix, the woman in the red dress, right. Yeah, I just get distracted by that, right. And there's nothing wrong with identifying with, like finding, like loving beauty, nothing wrong with that. For me, I think, it's been like learning what to sacrifice because I can go the rest of my life. Just put another notch in my bed post, and I think people in your audience can hear this you can go the rest of your life and just like, think that your manhood is and get your validation from how many women you can sleep with, and I honestly think that's licking the earth, as they say, and while it tastes good, sometimes, you can become obese, yeah, and so I think I'll probably I'm a man. I think I'll probably the rest of my life struggle with wanting to lick the earth and get distracted by the woman in the red dress and what's that character on the matrix who decided he wanted to be in a false reality where he's constantly having sex and eating steaks.

Speaker 1: 42:49

Yes, the guy who betrayed them. I can't remember his name, but yeah, he betrayed the.

Speaker 2: 42:53

That's all of our potentials, that's my potential. I could, for the rest of my life, get stuck in this loop of lust right and finding men around me that already have. That's one of the reasons I joined the Iron Council, because most of the men on the Iron Council man, they have families right. They have right. And one of my phobias growing up, if you will, bruce Wayne was afraid of bats. I'm afraid of actually being in a real loving relationship that it could actually provide me with one of the most meaningful things ever a family right. I'm afraid of that, but I'm willing to constantly edify myself and go in that direction. That's one of the reasons I'm in the Iron Council, I'm afraid, and there's so much to garner there, there's so much that I get from that, from this journey of dating in a healthy manner, dating with SOPs, dating in a way that is scary for me but all the same time it's getting me in the direction of meaningfulness, versus oh, let me just hook up with this shit over here, let me get it right. So that's my example of this process of authenticity, of even me opening up with you. Right now I'm like I don't wanna tell everyone about this, I don't wanna necessarily open up about the fact that I struggle with lust and I struggle with letting that stuff go, because a part of my condition is you're a man if you sleep with a number of this right, if you just sleep around, sleep around, sleep around, and there's nothing wrong with that per se, and at some point I want to become a man that brings other people into the world, that can create a more meaningful world, and I don't see any other route than starting a family, and so that's my answer for you. I don't know if that answers your question.

Speaker 1: 44:54

No, that answered it perfectly, because and I just wanna say thank you so much for being vulnerable, because I think that that's what a lot of people need to hear, especially guys girls do this a lot better than we do chatting with their friends and really being open. So the fact that you're open with something you're struggling with, that probably a lot of guys are struggling with, they are just putting more notches into their bed posts and too scared to really be vulnerable and go for that Loving relationship or worse well actually I don't know if this is worse, maybe it's better, but or worse is constantly addicted to pornography.

Speaker 2: 45:31

Yeah, constantly, just constantly. Like there's a payoff to all these behaviors. It feels good to go to a bar and see a pretty woman and take her home with you. That feels good. There's a payoff to that. You get validated too. And where is that going? You know what I mean. If you're someone that struggles with pornography like, are you ever learning how to be socially skilled? Pornography doesn't talk back. And if we're a man on earth, I think we all know that temptation is very real and there's a case for pornography being a good thing, perhaps right, or perhaps like being something that is not bad and it's a powering or something. Okay, whatever. My point is like and what are you missing out on? Right? Are you gonna get distracted by the woman in the red dress the rest of your life? Okay, maybe there's a case that it's okay in doses or something. My point is like what's the cost?

Speaker 1: 46:36

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 46:36

Oh yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:37

No, that's well said and this is what I really love chatting with you about, because, in line with this questioning, you can be authentic. We are having an authentic conversation because nobody wants to chat about this thing, nobody wants to admit that pornography is a big problem in society, and especially for young men as well, like there is no shortage of studies showing what negative effects it has on the brain over the long term, and especially for your own self-esteem, and, actually just as important, how women are viewed.

Speaker 2: 47:17

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 47:18

Because, unfortunately, if you're a lad just going through adolescence and your only experience up to a certain point is watching, say, pornography, women end up becoming sex objects, which is totally wrong, obviously. But again, that's something that we need to talk about more often and maybe I might even do a whole episode on it, although that, while that would be wildly uncomfortable, I did set myself a challenge of. But this podcast is about having the conversations that nobody wants to have, that we all need to discuss to become good and capable adults. But I really like what you said and I answered the question perfectly because it is authentic as a man and I will not getting rid of women in this equation, but just speaking from a man's perspective it is authentic as a man to accept that you can't do it by yourself. You cannot fix everything you need. We all occasionally need an Alfred.

Speaker 2: 48:21

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 48:23

I think that you've answered that question absolutely perfectly.

Speaker 2: 48:27

I love what you said about objectifying women, because I was just talking to Dylan about this on nights in dragons yes, it's, there's so much nuance here, right.

Speaker 1: 48:38

Yes, yes.

Speaker 2: 48:39

There's nothing wrong with wanting beauty and funny example, I would say I was an ugly duckling. Most people tell me these days I'm good looking and I get a lot, and I hope this doesn't sound like I'm bragging. I'm certainly not trying to. I'm just kind of like wrestling with this in my own mind. I had very good looking parents, right and so, but I didn't look like that growing up until like I grew up I was able to grow a beard and I noticed that women objected. If I mean my friends joke about it all the time, now they're like oh yeah, cult's, like the hot chick in our group because women like women like kind of offer themselves to me and that didn't happen until about three or five years ago and it's funny, right, like that's. I almost get like a. It's almost like if a gay guy is hitting on you or something, you're a guy, kind of like that, I guess. But I kind of. I have been with women that have totally objectified me and just treated me like they like the idea of being with me or something and the way I look on them. I'm like man. That doesn't feel very good and it like, again, there's nothing wrong with liking a handsome guy or a beautiful woman. It's just this idea of being able to have real connection with people. You know what I mean. Like initially go after towards the physical shirt, like, oh, she's pretty, I want something about her right, I want to see what she's about. Versus falling in love with an idea of somebody.

Speaker 1: 50:16

And oh, that's powerful.

Speaker 2: 50:18

Yeah, and I've, I'm learning to wrestle and reconcile the fact that, growing up in a very confusing environment lots of drugs and alcohol, but also a very religious environment sex is bad you're going to go to hell. Learning how to reconcile it's okay. It's okay that we have these lusts, that we have these desires. However, what makes us different than monkeys and apes is that we actually can reason, that we can actually use virtue right. And so do you want to be a monkey man? Go be my guest. Or do you want to become something more than a man, become a symbol? Yeah.

Speaker 1: 51:04

That's the Batman right there, right, so like you have a choice.

Speaker 2: 51:08

You have a choice. You can, you can, you can look the earth. I'm not going to stop you. It's just how do you know you're not in a trap? And so there you go.

Speaker 1: 51:21

Yeah, that was phenomenal and yeah, I gosh there was. There's just so much I could tap into there. I'm just trying to think how to appropriately respond.

Speaker 2: 51:33

I got one more, though, I got one more.

Speaker 1: 51:34

Go on. No, I'm happy to let you go on.

Speaker 2: 51:37

And let's not be monks either, right, like let's not. I'm not saying like don't go. Don't go, have a good time and go ahead, suck face, go ahead and get time. You know, like that stuff there's, there's, there's like we can, we can enjoy the nectar of life. My whole point and cause that's something I had a work through is like it's okay, it's okay Like. I'm not a like. I think there's this, there's this, this, this toxicity. They talk about toxic masculinity. Well, how about just toxicity in general, this toxicity? of like there's nothing wrong with going up to a woman and saying hello, I think you're pretty. I would like your number right, and maybe it's just a fling for the summer. Okay, you handed yourself like a gentleman, respectful. There's no lies, okay, fine, it's, it's just my. My whole point here is like learning how to become authentic within all that right and and learning how to. It's okay to kind of like to explore some things and explore that, but at some point if you are ultimately getting in your own way of what you want like for me, starting a family and you're still caught up in getting notches of the bed posts, then you're getting in your own way, man, and that's not good and you're getting stuck in the red dress thing. So I just want to make sure it's clear that I'm not coming from this like religious kind of monk. I think you shouldn't, you shouldn't have lust and don't. That's. You're bad, sinful, no, no, I'm just saying ultimately, what sin is is missing the mark. And if you're missing the mark and having something more meaningful that you know you would want and you're kind of shying away from it, then you're being in sin, as they say. You're missing the mark and let's get you hitting the target.

Speaker 1: 53:24

Yeah, that was very well said. I like that, you know. Ultimately, I think life in many respects is about finding balance. It is like, yeah, you're right, Don't don't fall for the woman in the red dress, but don't be a monk either, you know it's. It is that balance. But I also like what you said about face suck. I've never heard that before, when I found really funny.

Speaker 2: 53:46

Sucking face.

Speaker 1: 53:47

Slight, slight, slight tangent, but the best one I ever heard was.

Speaker 2: 53:51

I heard a math teacher tell me that one time out of all the people I've ever told you about. I met my husband in the back of a math class man and within the second week we were sucking face. She was like this crass, hilarious woman.

Speaker 1: 54:04

The best one I ever heard about that was it was a meme, but it was essentially a couple insisted that they don't call it a kissing. They called it a face battle. So that, so, so, that, so that on their wedding day you could say you may face battle the bride. I thought that was so that was so good.

Speaker 2: 54:22

Yeah, and one of the reasons I wanted to clarify that is because I think when I was 2021, whatever it was very shy and I thought that if I even touched a woman I was a bad person, right. And so I learned that it's okay to assert oneself, right, it's okay to like, go for it. You know, I think of the movie Good Dead Poets Society. Remember the character?

Speaker 1: 54:47

It's a nominal, yeah.

Speaker 2: 54:48

Yeah, the character that went for the girl, right, yes, yes. Like that is a here's journey within itself and so, like, let's not, let's not, oh, we need a more meaningful life, so therefore don't flirt with women or whatever. It is right. Like, no, that's not what I'm saying. I just wanted to clarify that because it's a here's journey within itself. If you're super shy and the whole world has told you like, just your maleness is bad, it's like knock it off. No, like, let's make a plan, let's make an approach where it's like it's courage to woo women as, or suck the marrow out of life. Just don't choke on the bone, as Rob Williams said. So, it's all balanced man.

Speaker 1: 55:29

Yeah, I really like that. Yeah, it's like tangent, which I'll not dwell on, but you know, unfortunately some people have some people from toxic circles we are not named make it out to be that if you're a male, you're automatically bad, you automatically carry inherently bad traits, and I'm just gonna say bull on that one.

Speaker 2: 55:50

Yeah, yeah, and I'll follow that with shit.

Speaker 1: 55:53

Yeah, you can tell me if I'm wrong here, but I don't honestly believe in the concept of toxic masculinity or even toxic femininity. In my uneducated opinion on this matter, I think that there is just toxic behavior, or there is just narcissism, or there is just, and that can be equally applied to the sexes. So you know, I feel like you know exactly what you said there. You know, don't be ashamed of being a man and don't be ashamed of being a woman either. I feel like we try to pigeonhole men into a certain thing, we try to pigeonhole women into a certain thing, and this is coming back to what we're saying Be just your authentic, you in a balanced way. Yeah, and you know, have a balanced life.

Speaker 2: 56:37

Yeah, absolutely, because the reality is it does kind of feel good to be ejected a little bit. You know what I mean. Like I can't remember who I heard she's like man I used to. I kind of miss being cat called she was joking but she's like I'm older now, so now no one cat calls me. She was joking, of course, but no, I actually agree with you. I think it's. I'm sympathetic to where it came from and why it's come up, but I'm definitely not on board with the idea of toxic masculinity. It's more like I'm just into this idea of dude. That's just not healthy behavior, nor is it accurate. And to just anything that like I. Again, going back to balance, there's generalities that I can buy into. Like most men, you know, have a lot of testosterone, more than women, and most women have more estrogen. Right, there's exceptions, but the rule is that that's generally true. And then, at the same time, I try to stay away from too much generalities Like you can't just all men are toxic. Like why?

Speaker 1: 57:37

Why are you saying that? Well, thanks for generalizing half the human population.

Speaker 2: 57:41

Yes, exactly, and at the same time, generalizations are helpful sometimes.

Speaker 1: 57:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 57:49

If you're in a dark alley and you're going to your car and you're a woman and there's five guys over there, you better generalize them right there. Yeah, Generalize that. They're most likely to be able to overpower you, and maybe you should I don't know get someone to help you walk to your car.

Speaker 1: 58:02

Yeah, common sense at the end of the day, isn't it? It's all common sense, don't take it anything to the extremes, exactly. So, moving on very because I know we're probably coming up nearly on an hour, but we'll let it flow A quote you said which I'm not sure really how to take it. I'm not really sure even what it means, so I'm hoping you can give us your perspective on it. And a quote that was said was things we are afraid of in the dark are our ultimate strengths, and I feel like that it's almost another play on Batman, but I'm not particularly educated in that I've watched a couple of movies. But what's your take on that particular quote?

Speaker 2: 58:47

It's interesting Like sometimes I forget what I said. I get on a roll I can't even notice, I just get in a rhythm, so I said things in the dark. Can you say it one?

Speaker 1: 58:55

more time. Things we are afraid of in the dark are our ultimate strengths.

Speaker 2: 59:01

Okay, I don't remember saying that, but I think I know what I was saying there. I think what I was saying was things that. So the thing that I recognize within myself that I know it's in line with my values, I know it's important, right. I know that, at this, starting a family one day it's very important, right. I know that that's important over there. And I also recognize this resistance, right Steven Pressfield talks about it, right? This resistance to go towards what matters. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. So the thing that I'm resisting, the cave that I least want to look into is most likely where my message is, is where my transformation's at Not always, but it seems like for me in my experience that whenever I go towards a thing that I'm most scared of, even if I get last place compared to everyone else, there's so much reference points I get that I would never have had if I didn't go where I least wanted to look, Because if I'm again familiar, hell is a preferable to strange heavens. If I get out of my homeostasis and I go towards what's unfamiliar, I have a whole new frickin' world. I have whole new experiences and I have reference points that I would never have, that I can build upon to therefore find new caves and new dark areas in my life that I don't want to necessarily look into, but I know that's where the gold's at. I know where that's where the princess is to save from the dragon. Right, Like that's become my life now is I never wanted to do podcasts? Never. I just don't want to. But every time I do it I feel like I'm getting more articulate and I'm finding more gold and I'm finding more ways to be a sound mind, and that's because I'm constantly going towards the thing and talking about the things that I necessarily don't really want to talk about, but I'm willing to talk about it because I know that's where my transformation's at. That's probably going to answer your question, but maybe not. You tell me.

Speaker 1: 1:01:03

No, no, it answered it very well and I feel like it ties in nicely with another quote I heard from.

Speaker 2: 1:01:09

Jordan.

Speaker 1: 1:01:09

Peterson that if you have to fight a dragon, it's better that you fight it in its layer before it comes to your village. I feel like that ties in very nicely with that. You know exactly what you've just said, where the deepest, darkest key if you really don't want to look in is probably where you need to look.

Speaker 2: 1:01:27

Yeah, definitely yeah, as comfortable as it is.

Speaker 1: 1:01:31

And coming on to the very last quote, which as a 90s kid I really appreciated this one, when that is, speaking from your own experience. The final quote was I would never go towards pride rock. I would never go to the thing that scared me becoming the king of my own life. So obviously a reference to the Lion King there, and I can hear the audience rejoicing for all those who haven't seen the Lion King. So this is really good, because there is that. It's a hero's journey again within itself. Simba, you know, after the big pep talk of his dad in the sky, recognizes that he's been living a lie and he charges head on into his fear. He has to have the ultimate fight with Scar to defeat his enemy and then ascend to pride rock, where he's supposed to be. How? In our own, in fact, maybe even in your own life? I don't know, maybe if this is if you've already reached it or you can expand upon it, but would you say that you have gone to pride rock? Would you say that you're still in that process? You're still in the battle with Scar? And how do we do that ourselves? How do we ascend our own pride rock and become sovereign over our lives?

Speaker 2: 1:03:01

You're asking me personally have Aigubin there, right?

Speaker 1: 1:03:03

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:03:04

So it's 5'9" 2021 over here in California, 10, 16 am. I would say that I am. I hesitate to answer because I feel like it's very layered, this thing called life, and it's like I become the king and doesn't end there. I continually, one day at a time, choose King, choose my kingdom, because I can always run back and like Timon and Puma, let's get out of here. Too much responsibility, man, let's go.

Speaker 1: 1:03:43

Oh, that's an interesting perspective.

Speaker 2: 1:03:45

Yeah, let's go back. Let's just eat bugs all day. I don't have to deal with the old lady, I don't have to deal with all this responsibility and keeping the circle of life. I'm done. So that's what I hesitate to answer, because I don't think this journey necessarily has this. Like once I roar on top of Pride Rock, it's over. I did it, woo Right. I feel like there's room for scar to come back in a different manifestation, and if I don't keep my eyes on the sun, on the star, on virtue, then the hyenas come back. And so that's one way for me to answer it. But absolutely certainly so I feel like I mean, the fact that I can be on a podcast talking to you is evidence that I've left Hakuna Matata way of living. Sure, sometimes scar comes back and I got to put them in his place, but for the most part I killed that scar and I'm constantly just on this maintenance place of maintenance. Now, are there levels to my kingdom becoming king? Yes, there is. So let's back up on the metaphor. Simba Young essentially thinks he killed his father and scar plays into that, and Simba has this terrible sense of shame and difference between shame and guilt. Guilt is I did something wrong and shame is I am wrong, I am defective. Wow, and scar really helps foster that shame. Run away and never return. You did a terrible thing. You're not worthy of love and belonging. You can't come back here. So it's one thing like oh, you did the wrong thing, but let's take you back, figure out how to make you more mature, or something Like your dad died. Now you're a king baby, okay, well, I'll be the king until you're old enough and I'll mentor you. No, no, no, you can't be here anymore. Run. And so Simba grows up with this whole inside of him of like, no self-worth, I'm not worthy, and he forgets who he is. He forgets who he is and he has these friends that perpetuate that. Oh, there's no such things as a circle of life. Akuna Matata, I guess YOLO, this kind of like. It is what it is, man, you know. Is there something? Is there like a saying like that in UK, where it's kind?

Speaker 1: 1:06:25

of like it is, but it is yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:06:27

It is what it is. It is, you know, like, well, let's just go with the flow, man. And so, you know, and in a way he finds belonging again, right, and but he's a friend with a pig and a meerkat and they're pretty much buffoons and they eat bugs all day. Alliance, not meant to eat bugs, it's meant to eat antelope, right? He eats bugs all day and he's pretty much smoking weed and playing video games all day long, watching porn, and they're just, they're just farting and doing whatever they're doing, you know, and it's just like no worries for the rest of your days. It's our problem. Free philosophy, akuna Matata, like that's not a way to live, man. But how many of us are doing that? How many people do you meet that are in the Neverland of their life? They're like full grown adults and they still act like 17 year olds. You know what I mean and that's kind of what your podcast is about. Like let's leave Neverland, let's go back to London this is Peter Pan now and let's become adults. Or Pinocchio, let's become real, stop being this hollow piece of wood, let's become real. And so, on this journey of becoming real, it's in becoming who you are You're going to have a gnoll at come around, slap you around the ying to your yang right, you're going to have Rafiki say oh, yes, yes, yes. Before I get to Rafiki, though, simba realizes man, I'm a piece of shit, I'm like, I'm not who I could be, and that's sobering and that's so important that it gets that place. I'm not who I could be. Remember who you are. You can be the king of your life. And Rafiki slaps him on the head. He's like oh, what was that for? Well, yeah, the past does hurt. There are scars in your past and you got to run from it or learn from it. And I've decided to learn from it and go toward the thing I least want to look at. You can face your scars or you can run from them, and our culture will help you. Just be safe, just do what's comfortable, just drink and be merry. You know like, just do it feels here. Take the sneakers bar, come on, just say you need sugar, like it will just keep you in your comfort zone and you have a choice and people will slap you. There are people in your life that, if you're fortunate enough, will slap you around and remind you that the past does hurt, and those people are the people, those are your alphrets, and it's going to hurt and it's going to be messy. Ashes will be thrown in your face Right. But what's the alternative? A kuna matata or become the king of your own life, and rows are the same thing. On Titanic, she by the Statue of Liberty. She's like my name's Dawson. She could have went back to first class, but she went to creating her own life, and that was also in the rain which was cleansing. And so Simba decides to roar for his individuality. He became selfish, if you will.

Speaker 1: 1:09:37

He remembers who he is.

Speaker 2: 1:09:39

And by doing that he became a king that made life better for everyone. Timon and Puma became the councilman of the king. So actually selfish is the least selfish thing you can do. Become an individualized. Remembering who you are and being congruent with that, even if it makes people pissed off, even if it means rejecting Timon and Puma, is actually better for everyone.

Speaker 1: 1:10:01

So that's really powerful. That is insanely good.

Speaker 2: 1:10:07

Why the hell do we care about the lines that speak English? Because that message.

Speaker 1: 1:10:14

But you know what? This is just going into my head, actually, and that is when you become well, not even when you become selfish. In general, you are always the bad guy or woman in someone else's story because to scar Simba is the enemy, even though Simba's intentions are good and Simba, as you said, by the end of the story had made life better for everyone in his kingdom and his sphere of influence, it didn't matter, because to scar into the hyenas, he was still the bad guy. So I think that when you become selfish and you ascend and you become the king of your own pride rock and the king of your own kingdom, it's still not going to satisfy everyone. It is about ultimately ascending to your own potential.

Speaker 2: 1:11:06

Ultimately, it's not going to satisfy the part of you that wants to stay unfamiliar. You break your own heart. You let a part of you die, and that's really uncomfortable. I'm so used to my depression. Let me just lay in the warm blanket of this. No, get up and go run eight miles. A part of you is going to be disappointed, learning how to stand in your own two feet, learning how to let other people deal with you. Oh, you're being selfish. Okay, I'm remembering. This is what's important to me, remember, and the circle of life. Everyone's better for it. You're going to break some hearts to monopunbora. Their hearts were broken at first. They're like you know what? I respect that. Let's go help them or they won't. They'll go continually eating bugs.

Speaker 1: 1:12:00

That's a really powerful concept, actually. His friends decided to not abandon him in the end. They decided to actually help him with his journey and becoming king.

Speaker 2: 1:12:10

Technically he abandoned them, but for a higher purpose. He's like hey y'all, it's cool knowing you. I'm going this way now.

Speaker 1: 1:12:21

What you said as well, I thought was really good, was that you were not keen to answer and say that life is layered. I feel like a lot of people are waiting for that one moment, that single defining moment for them to quote, unquote, change the fact that it's layered and that Simba didn't immediately rush back to Pride Rock or the Pride Lands. It took nagging nagging is the wrong word. It took encouragement and stiff debate from Nala to get him there, then he had to go through Rafiki and then he finally had to go through his dad to finally tell him remember who you are. I love how the fact that it's layered, but those layers eventually build up to that single defining moment where he does roar for his independence. He becomes the king and he becomes sovereign of his own life. Man, that's powerful. I feel like this is going to help so many people, man.

Speaker 2: 1:13:21

That's why in my logo, the Colt Gordon podcast there's a dragon in it. The dragon represents going towards your scars, going towards the fire, because going in that fire is actually what creates a more ironically comfortable life, a life that is better for everybody. But going towards comfort and just going towards the red dress, it makes your life harder.

Speaker 1: 1:13:47

Yeah, oh, 100%, man. I feel like we'll have to conclude it there, but this has been a powerful, powerful conversation, man. I've gotten a lot of value out of today's conversation and I know the audience will too. Awesome, because now they can take away this information and become the king and queens of their own life and bring their Timon and Pumba friends with them.

Speaker 2: 1:14:10

Yeah, absolutely dude, Absolutely. I love it.

Speaker 1: 1:14:13

Yeah, I'm sure people really enjoyed this. There are more powerful conversations and takes on mental health. Where can they find you and your content?

Speaker 2: 1:14:22

So I do coaching on the side. I'm also a mental health clinician, so if you're in California you can find look me up, and the agency I work for is Roost through recovery. But if you're not there, I do coaching on the sides very affordable and you can find me at coltgordon, C-O-L-T, dot, G-O-R-D-O-N, and I help people create more meaningful lives. I help people through my podcast. It's however I can help.

Speaker 1: 1:14:49

Yeah, fantastic, and I'll put all the details, and your Instagram as well, in the show notes and people can connect with you there. I imagine they will, because today's conversation has been much needed and has been exceptionally helpful. So once again, colt, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 1:15:10

No problem, man. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:15:13

There you go, folks. That was today's episode with Colt Gordon from the Colt Gordon podcast. If you enjoyed today's chat on mental health, then do check out Colt's podcast. It is full of very useful mental health advice. If you enjoyed today's episode of the curious Ulsterman, please do subscribe and leave a rating and review. That goes a long way in helping this podcast grow and reach new people. Please do subscribe to the various social media channels You're on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and TikTok to stay up to date with all the new content from the curious Ulsterman. And if you do feel that someone would benefit from this episode, please do share it on your social media. That would be really appreciated. So that concludes today's episode, folks, so go out and become the king or queen of your own Pride Rock. And once again, thank you so much for tuning in. I really appreciate every single one of you, so until next time I wish you all the best. Bye for now.